2019 Comic Magician of the Year! Larry Wilson Interview Show #7b

For the Labor day Holiday i am repeating one of my favorite interviews. Larry Wilson is a terrific magician and comic. he got his start in Hollywood and worked often for Hugh Hefner at the Playboy Mansion. Now a regular at the Magic Castle, he continues to magically entertain crowds around the world. Listen to his story and enjoy!

Hosted by: R. Scott Edwards

Transcript

Announcer: 0:04

This is another episode of stand up comedy, your host and emcee, celebrating 40 plus years on the fringe of show business, stories, interviews and comedy sets from the famous and not so famous. Here's your host and MC, Scott Edwards.

Scott Edwards: 0:22

Hey, welcome, boys and girls, we have another great show for you. This week. I am so excited sitting in front of me as one of my oldest friends and entertainment. He's not only a world class magician, but he's very funny guy. So he's a comic magician. And he's been working at my clubs for years. In fact, we still we just did a gig just a few months ago. But ladies and gentlemen, please make him feel welcome. It's Larry Wilson.

Larry Wilson: 0:49

What a thunderous response that was very flattering.

Scott Edwards: 0:55

Hey, it's so great to have you here in this elaborate studio I'm using. But ladies and gentlemen, Larry Wilson, magician of the year. Very, very funny guy. But we're talking about when we first met. So let's start off and introduce our audience to how you came about working for me. Do you remember I

Larry Wilson: 1:16

remember very clearly, because I'm one of the few people in entertainment who doesn't use any drugs or alcohol. So I have very clear memories of all these things. You're the one I am the one guy, I am the one and only guy. Now, there's a few guys who I remember, you know, that's quite remarkable. The guys who are serious the guys who take it seriously, I

Scott Edwards: 1:41

get professionals. And I always wish that we were just talking appreciated working with banks, but I think there are trade professional.

Larry Wilson: 1:48

I, I can't tell you the exact year, although I measure the timeline in ex girlfriends. And so it's a different way. That's right, well, so I can remember it now. So I can think of it must have about 1979 Would that be right? Well, I opened a 1980. So probably right about 1980 81. Just in the beginning was in the Delta queen. You did work the original artwork, the original room a couple of times. I worked there because the fantastic. The illustrious the esteemed George Wallace, I think called you and said Oh yeah, you know, you should have this guy, Larry Wilson.

Scott Edwards: 2:31

I gotta tell you, I've already told this story a couple of times in earlier podcast, but I was so blessed that when I first got into the business, I visited an open mic at the Comedy Store in Westwood, which is no longer there. Dave Clea was one of the acts we got to talking. He introduced me to Bob Saget. The two of them introduced me to George Wallace. And it was George Wallace, who ended up being my very first headliner in August 1980. And he was so nice. He took the time to answer all my questions about how to run a club how to treat the comics, and introduced me to great entertainers like you.

Larry Wilson: 3:07

He's the greatest George Wallace, the greatest. And I had met George just from working at clubs in Los Angeles. And he was always very nice to me. And a great

Scott Edwards: 3:19

entertainer that was actually had his own show in Vegas up until just last last year. Oh, I didn't realize he's not in Vegas. He had was performing at the Flamingo right over a decade. But he just gave up the show in the theater the about six months ago.

Larry Wilson: 3:34

I didn't realize it. Well, George, consistently, you know, I had a bunch of friends who worked at Showtime cable. And I remember them telling me at one time they were editing this comedy competition that had taken place in New York. And they said you should really see these two guys who the two finalists, kind of George Wallace and another guy named Jerry Seinfeld. And they said, they're both really really funny. And of course I watched as a god these guys are really funny. And an amazing thing happened while they were shooting in the middle of Georgia said there was a power outage. No, everything went black. Wow. They were recording audio but no picture and they kept thinking oh come on in a second. And so George does like five minutes in the dark. And the last row it goes on the funnier it gets and then finally Georgia just silent for like a long stretch. And then he says no when the lights come on. Everyone yells surprise. brought the house down a minute destroyed. That's hilarious. I thought what an incredible presence of mind. In this clearly you know you're taping for television, the whole thing's been disrupted

Scott Edwards: 4:56

and Oh, that is a great story. totally pro all the years of owning the clubs and I had three of them. We only had a couple of blackouts or power outages. And I remember twice doing shows we gave people in the audience flashlights. And then the comics, there was no sound system would just project right and get their act out there. But that's a great story about George, especially for a TV show. Oh,

Larry Wilson: 5:24

my God. So. So anyway, it's because of George Wallace and George Wallace. I mean, he didn't even say anything to me about it. You called me up and said, George Wallace said to you really good, we should hire you. And I said, well, thank you very much. And so I came up as the middle act.

Scott Edwards: 5:43

What was interesting I was I'm gonna interrupt you briefly and just tell the audience that in the very beginning, I was copying clubs that were popular already in LA, like the comedy magic club. And so the very first, I'd say, six, eight months of the shows, I had always had a magician, or a ventriloquist, or some creative act like that. Sandwiched or booked in by standups. And I thought that brought a little bit more entertainment in variety to the show. So that explains why you were in feature act, because you ended up being one of my regular headliners.

Larry Wilson: 6:22

Well, here's what's so funny about that first time I came up, we were in the Delta queen, which is essentially like a closet, in this restaurant, but very nice. But it was like some side room or banquet room or something. It was like a big deal. And it was packed. Now, I owe a great debt to the guy who was the headliner, but I will not name him. I remember very clearly who it was. But I will not name him because I don't ever want to embarrass anyone. But it's interesting. He was one of those la guys who I think is very talented, but wasn't really sure what he wanted to do. It's not clear if he wanted to, do you stand up or he wanted to be a writer or he wanted to be an actor?

Scott Edwards: 7:11

Well, we were talking earlier about Ed Solomon was used to come up and perform Yeah, and amazing writer, but he could not perform his way out of a paper bag. And I had several sit downs with him saying, you know, you're not to become a writer. Of course, now he's a multimillionaire world famous writer, right of movies and TV. But so that's a great example. So what you're about to say, let me project yes, that you were funnier. And so we switch positions?

Larry Wilson: 7:37

No, no, no, no, no, would never have occurred to me. I've done that. Well, I'm sure I've heard of such a thing happening. But I think he just, you know, I'm very high energy. And I think he was more laid back. And I think he also, you know, a lot of my early training, I don't know where some of this came from, I think from me studying performers that I admired and reading a lot and listening to people. So my understanding was you had to adapt to every audience. Oh, yeah, definitely. There's some people especially this was an LA thing. There were guys who killed in LA killed at the Comedy Store killed at the Improv, but died on the road, because their stuff was either too hip or too edgy, or whatever it was

Scott Edwards: 8:33

where you would see that a lot with X coming up from New York. Definitely a different edge to a New York Comic, or an East Coast comic than a West Coast comic. I know that sounds weird, but it was true, right? And then you get out of the metropolitan areas, and you get to playing where you're in Sacramento. And it's a still a great audience that people want to be entertained.

Larry Wilson: 8:54

It's different, but they're just normal people. Right, is what it is. And somehow it never occurred to me that you should make your act all about just pleasing the people in New York or LA. No, maybe that's a brilliant strategy, because some friends of mine who've done that have become, you know, enormously successful, obviously. But I didn't really think about that. I just thought, Oh, you have to, you can't do I mean, it's very funny when I first met Jay Leno, who's also very, very nice to me, I work with Jayla, but Lenovo, a member complimenting me after the first time he saw me said, you know, very clever view that you your act is so clean. And I said oh, thank you, but I was thinking, What do you mean? Of course, it has to be clean. Like, I didn't think you could go out and and use four letter word. I mean, I just thought no one will hire you

Scott Edwards: 9:55

what what's interesting is back in the 80s and 90s, your goal was to get on TV and film he's cracked me up because some of these guys cannot get through a set without you know, 10 or 12 F bombs right, the guys that made it on TV and did the tonight show Jerry Seinfeld. Jay Leno. Dana Carvey, Garry Shandling, they weren't clean. Of course now there are some that could walk the fence Bob sag. Saget was one of the guys it was one of the dirtiest comics you'd ever hear and funny and funny. And then he ends up on TV. And as clean as can be

Larry Wilson: 10:28

cleaner than clean as like America's dad. Yeah. On that flow. Well, but also tell you, I first met. Oh, Alan. Yeah. DML. I met Tim Allen. In Detroit. When I was working at Club, they're called the comedy castle. Oh, yeah. Not well. And, you know, frequently when I would come into these places they go, you know, there's a local guy who's really you got to meet him. And frequently, I would think, okay, and then they would be terrible, right? Normally, right? But this, they've talked about, Oh, this guy came out. So he came in and he killed. I mean, he was so great. But a lot of people don't realize how filthy he was, well, so filthy. And he came up after us. And he was very friendly. And we're talking, I said, Man, I said, you have everything you need, man, you could be a huge star. I said, you know, if you're interested, of course, in doing television, you have to try and clean that stuff up. And he just exploded. He just said, I don't want to do television. I don't have any interest in that man. I'm gonna be the greatest club comic here in the Detroit area. And I was just like, okay, okay, take it easy. I just

Scott Edwards: 11:35

so funny how that was his beginning and how he ended up nowhere, but and I'm sure there's other acts. I know some really funny people that never got famous because they were dirty, and they couldn't adjust. In a Bob Saget was one of the best at doing both. And apparently, Tim Allen was able to figure it out, of course, but they learned to develop clean material because they wanted to do the Carson show or something Merv Griffin, and be able to do that. I want to tell a quick story. And then we gotta get back to how you got started. stuff. I know we're going off on tangents. But we were talking about middle X and headliners and how I always had magicians. So and you'll get a kick out of this because it involves gold finger and dove. Love them. So I was at the Magic Castle, and I see Goldfinger and dove and an amazing act. And I go backstage, after I introduce myself, I go, Look, I'd love to have you up to the club. And we booked him like six weeks out. And these guys are world class magician team. And they come up. And we have our first show on Tuesday night. And we have an opening act of feature act. And here comes gold finger and Dev. And they do the same exact, beautiful act. It lasts 15 minutes. Well, I'm like freaking out. Because headliners are normally good for 45 minutes to an hour. That's what's budgeted in the show to entertain the audience. And they get down and go, thank you good night, and I'm literally in the bar, I'm running up. And I grabbed the feature and I go go back up and do some more time because these people paid for two hours show, right? So what we did is starting the second night, they were the middle act, but they were getting headliner pay. But it was a great lesson for me. Because whenever you hire somebody, Hey, by the way, how much time can you do?

Larry Wilson: 13:32

Well, because a variety acts in general, come from a tradition where they're thinking, Oh, you're going to be in a review show where you do eight or nine minutes, or you're going to be on The Ed Sullivan Show where you'll do three minutes or four. The idea was and there were there were a variety acts, one of my favorite ventriloquists of all time a guy named Sammy King. I don't know him. He, he's unbelievable. His act is so brilliantly structured. It's like a pyramid. It's just nine minutes. The first four and a half minutes is going up to the top of the pyramid. There's a lot of jokes. He has a parrot named Francisco and the parents funny and a lot of jokes. But you don't realize what it's really doing it the midpoint, the exact midpoint. He and the parrot get into an argument and he puts the parent back in his cage and covers. The second half is him trying to play guitar, a flamenco guitar but the parent keeps interrupting him and heckling him except we don't see the parent. Oh, that's a legit here the parents was but the character was so strong. And he looks over at the cage when the parent interrupts him and says please, you know, his entire second half of the act is like a bobsled going downhill, where the first half set up all these callbacks. And anyways, Sam genius. Well, so I hired Sammy when I was producing the show at one point. And, you know, I said, I knew that he didn't do a lot of time, but I just said, I said, Sammy, so you know, I have all the people the, you know, have a comedy ventriloquist comedy juggler, comedy magician. I said, we're all doing, like 15 minutes set. I said, Can you do longer than nine minutes? I said, Can you stretch? And he goes, Yeah, yeah. He said, I could stretch to 10.

Scott Edwards: 15:42

He was basically going to talk slower. I

Larry Wilson: 15:45

said to 10, he goes, Yeah, he goes, but you know what, it's better at nine. And so I said, you know, let's stick with that. Just stick with Well,

Scott Edwards: 15:52

I learned my lesson, we never ended up booking gold finger and dove again, because they were expensive world class magicians, and I can't pay that kind of money for a 15 minute set. But it was interesting, because for the audience out there that would know this, that in the comedy world different than what you're talking about, the vaudeville shows, TV and radio, where you have short segments, we were always filling a two hour show, right, between three acts. And so you had to balance between how much time the emcee did, which, you know, should be just a few minutes wasn't my case, an opening act that might do 10 minutes, fee track does maybe 20. And then the headliner would cover between 40 and an hour. And that was pretty standard in the stand up world, in the comedy club world. But that's really totally different than all the other types of entertainment that you might do. And at the time, I didn't really even realize it was that different, but it makes total sense now. Oh,

Larry Wilson: 16:51

yeah. Yeah. So well, here's what's so funny, Scott. So there's, like so many things that have happened in my career. It was all serendipity. I didn't know what was going on. I had no clue. I just thought this is really fun. And as long as it continues, I'm going to go along for the ride, right? So George Wallace, I meet him, he's nice enough to call you so I get blood. So I come up the headliner, is having trouble following me. I wouldn't say anything about it. I didn't want him to feel as awkward or bad. That's why I won't say who it was. But you would never have occurred to me to go to you and say, You should. But you came to me and said we'd like to bring you back as a headliner. And I thought,

Scott Edwards: 17:37

because I'm a genius. And I recognize genius.

Larry Wilson: 17:40

Obviously, you My attitude is okay. Yeah. I mean, but when I think of all the people who would not have done that, who would have thought, oh, you know, how can I exploit this? Or how can I, right? Oh, I

Scott Edwards: 17:53

mean, keep you as a low right, or less, or pay or whatever, I was all about the quality of the show. One of the reasons I don't have money is I never was trying to make a buck off the show. I was really in the industry for my love of the industry of the comedy world. Well, which sounds ridiculous. Obviously, I made money in the you know, I wasn't gouging at the door obvious.

Larry Wilson: 18:17

That's why you had so much success. I remember talking with you in the beginning. And I was so impressed that you and Bob had decided to open this comedy club, because you really liked stand up comedy. And I thought, That's a weird idea.

Scott Edwards: 18:35

wasn't smart, business wise, but we certainly had a good time.

Larry Wilson: 18:38

What else are we going to do? I mean, in the final analysis, I'm here with you today, because of our relationship, because we have an authentic bond. Ryan. So is that somehow less valuable? I know. And I think that's all there is, is connections we have I think that's all we have. Well, I

Scott Edwards: 19:03

think it's interesting that you point that out, because one of the big lessons I learned from working with George Wallace, those first few weeks, people like Bob Saget, Dave Kobe was treat the comics. Well, don't overpay him don't expect, you know, there's people gonna take advantage and stuff. But treat them respectfully. And you'll get that back. And that was always kind of my mantra in the early days. So let's let's back up a little bit. When did you start doing magic?

Larry Wilson: 19:36

Oh, I guess when I was very small. And it's funny, I guess, because people sometimes will ask me they think, oh, was your father a magician? No, my father. Nobody in my family had anything. They do show business. They were horrified. But I remember my father must have shown me some little magic trick when I was a kid and then I just didn't I think A lot of kids get interested in magic, you know, eight 910 years old and stuff, but I never thought of doing it.

Scott Edwards: 20:06

So what was your first show? Were you like doing the kid shows or high school? Or was a college that you'd kind of did a public set?

Larry Wilson: 20:15

No, I'll tell you. It's funny. I just for fun. I in Southern California, I was in Los Angeles, a friend of mine took me to the Renaissance Fair. Oh, and Mr. Go to those. Yeah. And so somebody said, Oh, you could do this, Larry. And I thought, Oh, that'd be fun. So I started just as a street performer passing the hat. And I was ignore modestly successful. And it was really interesting training, because I didn't have any pretensions. No, I just wanted to have fun. And I also saw that when the audience was really entertained, I got more money in the hat.

Scott Edwards: 20:59

So is that did that lead to the comedy joining the magic? Because not every magician is funny,

Larry Wilson: 21:04

right? Well, no, I couldn't I couldn't separate them ever from the beginning. Oh, yeah. So

Scott Edwards: 21:08

you started off kind of as a comic magician? Well, because

Larry Wilson: 21:11

to me, the idea of being a magician, you're saying I have supernatural powers? That's already funny, right? Yeah. But then you say, I'm going to demonstrate my supernatural powers by changing this red scarf into blue sky. Right now, if you had supernatural powers, is that what you'd be using them for? It's already inherently absurd. The idea? It's obviously a theatrical conceit, saying, I have supernatural powers. So to me, that's already funny character. And that's what I played on stage all these years and still do is the character who really thinks that he can convince the audience of his supernatural ability.

Scott Edwards: 21:58

Oh, it always cracked me up and some guys played on it. And other guys were like dead serious magicians, where they're changing a $1 bill into a $20 bill in trying to wow the audience. Like this is real like, hello, right? If I could do this, I wouldn't be here entertaining you. Why

Larry Wilson: 22:15

would I be I be at home changing all these ones into hundreds, right? Yeah, of course. You know, it's just anyway, that to me is already funny. And so I could never ever do it straight. I could never ever do it as the straight magic. And so. So I was doing this, these renaissance fairs, but just for fun. I never took that seriously. I was. Then I went to UC Santa Cruz, where I got a degree in filmmaking. I did not know that. Yeah, how cool and that was always my love is filmmaking and storytelling, which of course is interesting because it's what I

Scott Edwards: 22:55

do well, that's similar to a patter what's it's called when a magician is doing his, his act as there's what's called powder, which is a description of the act, basically. But it's a story if you're doing it, right.

Larry Wilson: 23:07

But there's even more than that. When you start to break film down, you realize it's just like magic. Oh, interesting. It's just like magic. When we when you're editing. And you see someone you know, wide shot, reach for something on the shelf, and then we cut to a close up and we see Oh, it's a coin they're picking up right? Well, that's exactly like a magician. You have a greater advantage in film because I can focus your attention but it's about directing your attention to what I want you to see. Yeah, you you control what the audience sees. You know how in film we do a we do a cutaway, you know, someone walks through a door and then we cut to the other side of them come in. Well, it doesn't mean the doorways the same location. Right? Right. It's exactly like magic. And it's no surprise it's it's interesting, great filmmakers like Orson Welles. Huge magic fan.

Scott Edwards: 24:07

Oh, interesting. I

Larry Wilson: 24:08

didn't know that. Oh, my God.

Scott Edwards: 24:10

But it does make sense what you're saying is, I mean, there's the term movie magic for a reason.

Larry Wilson: 24:16

Well, the first magicians sorry, not the first magicians but the first filmmakers George Melia is Frenchman the first filmmaker in Paris. He was a stage magician.

Scott Edwards: 24:29

I saw a TV special about him. Didn't do the movie Man in the Moon. Yes. Yeah. And there was all tricks.

Larry Wilson: 24:40

Well, well Scorsese's film, but not the film. Yes, Scorsese's film, Hugo is about George milliamperes and his origins, and he realized it's typical of magicians. He just saw this film medium as a way to do his magic act better You know, you could do all these tricks. You could shoot him walking on stage, then stop the camera, move someone off, start the camera, and they would appear to disappear in the film. Right, exactly. So all these there's a huge, huge history in film of effects artists, who are also magician. That's

Scott Edwards: 25:21

crazy. Oh, yeah. And it makes perfect sense. And I didn't know you had a degree in that in Santa Cruz is a wonderful university. Oh, yeah. And so you were already performing?

Larry Wilson: 25:31

Well, but I stopped performing. Oh, when I went to college, because I was serious about filmmaking. So I get out of Santa Cruz, I come back to LA. Everyone's just graduated from film school.

Scott Edwards: 25:44

That's true in LA. Yeah,

Larry Wilson: 25:45

there's no jobs. I mean, I have all these friends who are very talented, we're all fighting for jobs. They don't get paid. They're fighting for these jobs, where you work for free. And I'm thinking, how am I supposed to support myself? If I'm working for free? In the midst of all this? I get a job on a low budget film. I'm getting paid 175 a week, working six days a week, 16 hours a day.

Scott Edwards: 26:12

Wow. I pay? Well,

Larry Wilson: 26:15

I thought I was killing it. Because I had all these friends who were working for nothing, right. But after a couple of weeks, I mean, I was pretty fried by this, right? And I ran into someone who said, Oh, hey, how you doing? What's going on? I said, Well, I'm doing all this stuff. They said, do you do magic anymore? And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, I just filmmaking. They said, Oh, that's too bad. And I said, one. So my parents are going to have a party, they're going to hire a magician. I just thought, you know, if you I said, Well, we'll hold on a second. I said, what would they pay? You said, six 700. I said I could do that. Right? He said, Oh, really? I said your horse, of course. So I go home, I get out all my old stuff. I sort of brush up on stuff. I go to this party. To my astonishment. Everyone loved it. And then people asked me for my business card. I said, you know, I just ran out of cars. But I'm going to write my name and number on this napkin for you. Suddenly, I'm doing all these parties. I thought, oh, Larry, this is great. Then at one of these parties, someone says, Would you like to be on TV? I said, Well, what do you mean? They said, I'm the talent director for and I don't remember what it was Merv Griffin. Mike Douglas, Donnie shirt. Something one of those. You did all those show? Yeah. And I said, well, would I get paid? They said, Of course you get paid? I said, Oh, yeah, I do. Right? So I do that show. A couple days later, I get a call from someone else who goes, you know, my brother in law is a talent coordinator for that show you just did. They said you did really well, and you're really nice and easy to work with. And again, it wouldn't occur to me to not be professional or not be nice or not, you know,

Scott Edwards: 28:03

I'm gonna interrupt you just to say that I've known you a long time. And you are one of the most driven high energy car salesmen of the entertainment industry. I mean, you really, when you get on stage you're on. And you have a dynamic personality. And what's interesting, and hearing how you got started is you kind of just fell into things. Yes. As opposed to now where you're really driven. I mean, all the years I've known you, you were out there, getting the gigs and selling yourself. So to hear that this is how you started is fascinating. I

Larry Wilson: 28:41

had no idea what I was doing, Scott, I have no clue. And so all these I mean, most people start out in clubs and work up to television, I sort of started in television. And all these people who knew each other, were referring me to each other. He's doing all these TV shows. And so it's, I have a totally different perspective on all of it. That's fascinating. I mean, it's crazy idea. Well, also because my background, I think, because of film and stuff like that. All of it, I'm looking at as a theatrical experience. And nowadays, there seems to be something else going on. That's different that I'm not.

Scott Edwards: 29:23

Yeah, familiar, but you did it. Right. And one of the things that I think helped you whether you knew it or not, and I'm not sure at what point you decided to become this character, Larry Wilson, the magician, but you had an iconic look with the white tuxedo. The hair was perfect. I mean, you were on like I said, and whether it was television or a comedy club stage. The audience knew that one. You're a professional, too. You had the look. And then like I said, you had the energy and the I call it salesmanship. But you know, like you could have sold refrigerators too. an Eskimo as they would say, well had the, the pattern of the talk.

Larry Wilson: 30:04

Well, I always again, I looked to show business icons, I would read about these people. And I think of a James Cagney, who said, you should always be dressed a little better than the audience.

Scott Edwards: 30:22

Oh, that's great. I've never heard Oh, yeah. And

Larry Wilson: 30:25

so I thought I said, Of course, this makes sense. So, I that white tuxedo, I had purchased at the MGM auctions. There was a rack of them, there must have been 50 of them. And I remember the time friends of mine said, You're crazy. Why would you buy this? I said, I don't know. Just seems like it's fun, right? But it was very expensive. Scott, it costs$7. Oh, god, my friend said yours is You're crazy. You're throwing $7 a

Scott Edwards: 30:53

pop more than one. Well, there's now

Larry Wilson: 30:55

been like 18 or 19 of them because I had to the original one I bought must have been 40 years old when I bought it. But it was beautifully made. Right. And I worked just as a as a laugh because somebody at one point said, Oh, we really want you in a tux. So I said, Okay. Oh, really?

Scott Edwards: 31:10

This wasn't a persona you picked? No, no, no. That's,

Larry Wilson: 31:14

and of course, I didn't have any shoes to go with the white tux. So I just wore my white, Adidas. And then the first time I performed, someone came up to me said, it's so brilliant. Have you the tuxedo with tennis shoes, you're showing? I always thought that was cool. Of course, people said, Oh, the juxtaposition of modern versus they interpreted all these things that I didn't realize I said you just did it because you had them. I said, Yeah, I'm really I'm a genius, Aren't I right? But but the look of me with the hair and beard. That was very intentional, because I thought the character I'm playing is supposed to look like a magician.

Scott Edwards: 31:52

And it really worked. Now, do you remember what year you started wearing the tux? Because that is the character that was laying on Merv Griffin, the Donna.

Larry Wilson: 32:02

Oh, that was that was your show? Oh, that was before any of the TV stuff that was doing these private parties?

Scott Edwards: 32:07

Wow, I probably did. Just you stayed with it. Oh, yeah. Because with me to this day,

Larry Wilson: 32:11

I still of course, because it's become a very clear trademark. That, you know, when when you and I were doing this, the rule of thumb was you had to be on television like 20 or 30 times before people would remember your name. Now, with the inundation of media. I don't know how many times you have to appear before people before they remember your name. I don't know.

Scott Edwards: 32:40

But it really is a different world. What was your leading him to a statement that I could make is that in the show business in the 80s? In the 90s, you are correct, you could do a bunch of those other shows Merv Griffin is a great example. And if you did them enough, you became a household name. And then it changed to win if you did one Tonight Show with Carson as the host. And you rocked it. Yes. You were an overnight celebrity. Yes. But then in the 90s. That kind of faded. And for some reason, Letterman didn't like having comics on probably because he was a comic. And Leno didn't really support comedy when he was running the Tonight Show. So it shifted to where it took a lot a little rose, then it was Wow. If you got Carson, you were made. And then it went back to you could do these shows and nobody will ever really remember because there's so much going oh my

Larry Wilson: 33:37

god. I mean, I can tell you this. I see stuff posted on YouTube that I didn't put up of me of shows. I don't remember doing so there. But do you remember seeing Johnny Yun on The Tonight Show? Yes, I remembered as if it were yesterday.

Scott Edwards: 33:55

And I would not know that name any other way would Gianni

Larry Wilson: 33:57

Yun first Korean comic to appear on the Tonight Show Goes on kills. I mean just destroyed them. Carson's going crazy. Six weeks later, I see John Ian's name on the marquee at the sands in Vegas. Well, that's what it was in those days. You went on Carson and killed it just took one shot. That was it.

Scott Edwards: 34:23

Wow. And we know lots of people like Gary Shandling Seinfeld that went on and had those moments that changed their lives, right.

Larry Wilson: 34:31

But they even those guys had to keep performing. Oh, yeah, you know, but it's a different world. And so I guess what made me think of that was I don't always expect people to remember my name, but they certainly remember the white Tux the and the beard and hair they know Right? Like I said it

Scott Edwards: 34:52

was iconic. You definitely put it down. Let's transition a little bit. One of the things that made you who you are was not Only you're a terrific magician. And you can do both close up and stage acts. And I know that you do huge stage productions in Reno Tahoe in Vegas. So I've seen you from a staged three foot by three foot square all the way up to a huge theatrical performance. But the comedy is always worked for you. Can you share with the audience since we're kind of a comedy podcast about stand up some of the early bits, and there's ones that I mentioned to you before we went on the air that we will always remember, but maybe you could share a couple.

Larry Wilson: 35:35

You tell? See, it's complicated, because to me, I would write comedy, I would sometimes write stand up material that I would do on stage, just for fun, because I wanted to try it out. But the stuff that I liked the best, really had to do. Where it came organically from the magic that I was doing. I presented it anyway. But But what you're saying is, you know, it's funny, I wrote up, maybe 30 minutes of stand up that I would do on stage, sometimes I would almost be my own opening act, where I would use that. Because when I was traveling a lot, I found that when I was traveling, especially through the South, I could make fun of where I was from, I'd say, Oh, I'm from Los Angeles. And immediately, they would respond and they're going yeah, you seem different, you know. And so then I could just tell them things about where I was from, and that was hysterical to them. And a lot of it what weren't jokes, I was telling them

Scott Edwards: 36:45

to stop vote, for example, you flew around in the south, and what airline,

Larry Wilson: 36:51

the Ozark airline, I don't think they're around anymore. And I just told them, I said, you know, there's all these things in the South that are new to me. And I think maybe some comics come in, we try to make fun of people in the south, which of course, doesn't make sense to me. But instead, I would embrace them and say, I'm learning all this new stuff. But I'd never flown on this airline Ozar. And, you know, I had the pad ticket in my pocket there. You can read Ozark and I went into the bathroom to wash my hands. I looked up in the mirror, and there was reversed crazy Oh, I don't want to be on crazy air. Right. And so that's not that hilarious a joke. But in the south, oh my god, they thought because no one was saying stuff about them. No one was related. And and I would talk about I said, you know, it's hard for me to understand sometimes when you speak, because I can tell everyone's really friendly. They're smiling. But it just sounds like they've taken all the continents out of the Alpha. They just are like I said, I'm being dip thrown to death by you people. I said, but but they're lovely people. I said, but sometimes they offer me things. I don't know what they are, you know? And

Scott Edwards: 38:09

well, there's a famous tree that you're known for. So so you're flying around the South on crazy airlines. And you're, you're introduced to this new tree. Tell us about this?

Larry Wilson: 38:19

Well, that will because they said I was at someplace and I hated a restaurant. And this woman said Oh, would you like a moon pie? And I thought, I don't know what that is a moon pie. And she said, oh, it just like a goo goo. Goo goo No, no, I don't. I don't know, you know. And again, these are these are simple jokes. It's like,

Scott Edwards: 38:48

in the weather, not jokes in the sense of a setup and a punch. Right, right are experiencing right something in the south. And it always worked. It's one of the bits that we've never forgotten the crazier airlines in moon pie. One was the way you expressed it and two, that we've never as Californians have never heard of moon pie. Or a goo goo.

Larry Wilson: 39:09

It's also funny, I think because I approached it theatrically, where I wasn't just transmitting this information. I was really a performing theatrically like you felt like this is Larry's confusion. You know, I really, I think I gave you the idea of how weird it felt to me to be a stranger in a strange land. Well, I

Scott Edwards: 39:35

also it leads me to explain to the audience that one of the really great talents and why some of these comics become actors. Is it and you were doing this naturally, was that you're telling these stories? Like it just happened? And the audience doesn't know that you've been telling that same story every show for you know, 365 days. Drive on stage, but were able to sell it like, oh, by the way, well, I was just on the south and had a moon pie.

Larry Wilson: 40:08

You know, you put your finger right on it's got. Again, this is how, why I think it was not my intention. But it clearly in retrospect is sort of what makes me different than some of these other performers. Because I was approaching it theatrically, you know, I became very good friends with Karl Malden, the Academy Award winning actor. And he was every single performance he did, you know, Streetcar Named Desire, and on the waterfront, and on and on, I mean, the guy's very dramatic, brilliant, brilliant. And one time I just said to him, I said, I can't take it anymore. I keep watching these films. Every time you're different every time you're great. I can't see what you're doing, can you? He said, I don't know what you mean. I said, What are you doing? He said, Oh, well. I'm just learning the material so well, that I don't have to think about that I can just

Scott Edwards: 41:12

so he really studied exam became the character and then it became natural. So it wasn't like even acting, it was real.

Larry Wilson: 41:19

And then after he had passed away, his daughter showed me this copy of the script of one of his. And you know, on the right side is the script page. And the left side is usually blank. Left side, every single page covered in handwritten notes about every single line of what's going on. I remember one time I asked him, I said, Can you tell the difference in good actors and bad actors? And he said, Oh, yeah, sure. I said, really? I said, How do you tell he said, Well, he said, a good actor. Even if, you know, Carl had done all this work for years on Broadway, right? He said, even if you're in a Broadway show, doing eight performances a week for years, they're listening to you. As if they've never heard what you're about to say, as if they're thinking how do I process? What is, uh, you know, they said, a bad actor, is just thinking, when will it be my turn to speak?

Scott Edwards: 42:18

So when each different, right, when you

Larry Wilson: 42:20

talk about saying to the audience, like, Oh, I just thought of this. Every single performance is like, oh, you know what? I just thought of this.

Scott Edwards: 42:28

Right? And to the audience, it's the first time so that's a legitimate conversation.

Larry Wilson: 42:33

Of course it is. But it's also this is what theater is, I don't know, if stand up is really theater, I think it should be. But that's what theater is, when we see Hamlet, we don't seriously believe the person on stage is a Danish prince. Right? Because if he was, he'd be speaking Danish. You wouldn't be speaking English. But the theatrical conceit, we suspend our disbelief. Wow. You know,

Scott Edwards: 43:03

that's very well put? Well, you know, we're talking about communication here. That leads us to what you're doing now. So I've already explained to the audience that Larry Wilson is not only a very successful comic magician that's worked television, in stages of all sizes for decades. But just recently, you've taken some of what you've learned about communication, and started kind of a side project. It's really more than a side project. It's a business. Well, it's, let's tell the audience about

Larry Wilson: 43:32

it. It's kind of taking over my life. A few years ago, after performance, a guy came up and introduced himself. His name is Al Oppenheim, he's the professor, the Ford Professor of Engineering at MIT. And he said, you know, you're really, really good communicator. And I said, Oh, thank you. You said, could I, can I hire you to come to MIT, and teach our graduate students to improve their communications? I said,

Scott Edwards: 44:05

Sure. Of course, that's a compliment.

Larry Wilson: 44:06

Right? There was a lovely thing. And I thought, great. So I came and did this presentation for MIT students, they were fantastic. They're brilliant. But they didn't have great communication skills. And they were so enthusiastic. And afterwards, Professor Oppenheim said to me, said, You know what, you're a great entertainer. But this is what you should really be doing now. Wow. And I said, Are you serious? He said, Yeah.

Scott Edwards: 44:38

He said, had to be kind of interesting to hear as a lifelong entertainer, which, you know, you've honed your craft, to the level that of excellence that it is, and then being told, Well, yeah, that's okay. But you shouldn't be doing this. Well.

Larry Wilson: 44:52

It was mind blowing because he said, he said, you're not even aware. I think that you illustrated so many of the techniques are teaching with stories about show business icons, you learn this from? I said, Well, yeah, you know, I work with people like Sammy Davis Jr, and and Margaret. And, you know, it goes on and on and on all these people, and so many Academy Award winning people and the biggest stars in the world, and they learn from each and every one, I would pay attention to every single one smart. He said, You don't realize what you're doing is so interesting. He said, Because you're not trying to teach people to be talented. I said, Well, no, I don't know how to teach him. He said, you're teaching them technique. I said, Well, yeah, technique is duplicatable. I can transfer technique to anyone, if you speak English doesn't have to be your first language. But if you speak English, I can teach anyone to communicate better and more effectively. And that led to this development of this thing I now call Wilson method training. I do training for corporate events for you know, half day for big companies. I do a very intensive two day boot camp. But that's very small, because it's very personalized coaching. It's limited to just 10 people. But that mostly are individuals, although some people from some companies have now called me recently because I think they want their execs to come to that. And then I've also just completed a online, like, masterclass training online so that people who cannot travel to wherever I am, or something like that,

Scott Edwards: 46:47

and this, and you can find all this on your website, www dot Wilson method.com. And so I got to ask, so when you do these presentations, yeah. Is it in a white tux?

Larry Wilson: 47:01

No, no, it's very, very,

Scott Edwards: 47:04

it's different than your show performance very jarring

Larry Wilson: 47:07

for people who know me as the white Tux guy, because I dress like a professional in a suit a dark suit and tie. And you know, the next question you may ask, I don't do any magic, of course, because I want to emphasize, I want to make it really clear to people who are training with me, I don't want to do anything that you think well, I could never do that.

Scott Edwards: 47:35

Right, like magic, right? You know, teaching magic, which you could probably do sure is not what we're trying to get it accomplished. Here. We're trying to teach communication, which is not as physically oriented. Right, right.

Larry Wilson: 47:49

Well, I'll tell you, I'll give you an example here. One of us is just, there's so many. It's terrifying. I started to put together a collage of photos of famous people I'd work with. And when it got to like 70 or 80, I thought, this is a lot of people. And each one of nurses distinct lesson of classic, a tenant of Wilson method. I learned from Hugh Hefner. Oh, really? I was a girl I knew took me to a party at the Playboy Mansion many years ago. Yes. Crowded party. Fantastic, very exciting, you know? And she said, Oh, I really want you to meet half. And I thought, You know what, half doesn't want to meet? She said, No, no, he's great. You'll love him. And I thought, okay, all right. So she dragged me over. And he says, Oh, hi. You know, Debbie has been telling me you know about you. And I said, Oh, it's really nice to meet you. And he says, she says, you just graduated from college, and I said to ya, and he says, What was your major? And I said, filmmaking? And he said, Oh, do you like film noir? And it's a genre. I said, I love film noir. He said, Do you like the Bad and the Beautiful? I said, You mean the greatest film noir ever made? He said, Isn't it incredible? I said, Yes. He said, Isn't Gloria Graham, the most luminous woman you've ever seen on screen? I said, Yes. Yes. I said, No. Tell me something you have. Why didn't she become a big star? He said, Well, I think she didn't look like big stars at the time like Rita Hayworth, you know, like Laura Graham sort of had a different shaped face and she was blonde and her eyes. You know, I said, but anyway, next thing I know, Scott. I'm standing in the middle of his party talking to him for like 40 minutes about film. And I suddenly realized all these people are crowded around us. We're looking like they like to wring my neck, right? And so I said, You know what I I'm sorry, I didn't mean to monopolize your time. I said, but this is fantastic. And, and I just want to thank you for inviting me. The party is great. It's great to meet you. And you said, thanks. And then I disengaged myself. I walked away. And I thought, Oh, I understand what this guy's had such incredible success with women. I said, I get it totally. Because he's actively listening. He's engaged. But it's but there's a technique that everyone can use Scott. He is engaged. You're Of course, you're right. But what he did, that I teach, I think is very important thing is, he really listened to me. And his responses, indicated that he was listening to me, didn't mean he had to agree with me, didn't mean he had to flatter me. I think what we want more than anything in life is to feel like we're seen and heard. I think there's nothing worse than feeling like you're invisible. If you've ever had that experience, for whatever reason, you don't have enough money, or you're not in the right club, or you're not in the right clothes. But whatever it is, it's a terrible feeling. And when someone really sees you and really hears you, it creates an authentic bond with it. Now, some people say to me, Well, you know, what, if you know what, if you weren't in film, what if it was something you didn't know about? I guarantee what he would have said, if I'd said, Oh, I'm an astrophysicist. If he didn't know anything about astrophysics, he might have said to me, Oh, I don't know anything about that. Can you tell me what's the most?

Scott Edwards: 51:46

It's a great lesson. Oh, my God. You know, what it brings to mind though? Is it people out there in the audience have a choice, you could go out and spend several 100,000 on therapy, or just go to the Wilson method?

Larry Wilson: 52:00

I mean, I am I have a certain bias, of course, because I think so highly of myself. I have to well deserve I have to tell you, honestly, Scott. And I thought, wow, that's, to me, that's more important. Less.

Scott Edwards: 52:14

Once you learn something like that. It's not just for business, it becomes who you are. And it helps in all your relationships, whether it's family, friends or business. That's fascinating, folks, don't be afraid. Check it out. www Wilson. method.com. You know what, sadly, we're running out of time. But Larry, I can't tell you how exciting it was for me to have you join me in the studio. It's great, and chat about show business and where you've how you got started to where you are now. I don't even need, but I will wish you continued success. Because in all the years I've known you, as I mentioned, you're the ultimate professional and always rising to the occasion. And just with the Wilson method, I think you're gonna take this to the next level. Congratulations.

Larry Wilson: 53:00

Thank you. I mean, Mike, you know, sometimes people say to me in the training, they'll say, you know, do you think this is bad, or you think this is a mistake? I said, you know, I think the only thing that's really a failure is death. As long as you don't die, you're doing it. Okay. You're doing great. And, you know,

Scott Edwards: 53:22

that's a great response. Well,

Larry Wilson: 53:24

it's true, because some of the will be talking. We do a lot of training for people who have to get up make presentations or speeches. And of course, people are terrified of doing that. And when we break it down and deconstruct it, they realize, oh, I don't have to be afraid. And suddenly, these people are able to get up effortlessly and speak extemporaneously, and it's fantastic transformation. But I just say, no one's ever died from being embarrassed. Yeah. Or stage fright or stage. And yeah, never done perspective. That's the word of the day perspective.

Scott Edwards: 53:56

Larry, thanks so much, ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank Larry Wilson for joining us today. Stay tuned for a future podcast. Be sure to review them, rate them and share them. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks, Larry.

Larry Wilson: 54:10

Thank you very much. It's fantastic. Man.

Scott Edwards: 54:12

You guys. Have a great day. Thanks. Bye.

Announcer: 54:16

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